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	<title>Comments on: Why the Health Insurance Industry Supported Obamacare</title>
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	<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare</link>
	<description>Healthcare Rationing in America</description>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Walrath</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-19386</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Walrath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 06:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-19386</guid>
		<description>Very informative and eye-opening series of posts. Should be required reading for all TeaBaggers since they love them some private healthcare...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very informative and eye-opening series of posts. Should be required reading for all TeaBaggers since they love them some private healthcare&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Healthcare Economist &#183; Weekend Links</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-8872</link>
		<dc:creator>Healthcare Economist &#183; Weekend Links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 23:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-8872</guid>
		<description>[...] the health insurance industry supported [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the health insurance industry supported [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DrRich</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7699</link>
		<dc:creator>DrRich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 11:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7699</guid>
		<description>Jupe,

I don&#039;t know enough to say how much the drug companies themselves might have manipulated British policy.  But as one who now earns his bread consulting with biotech companies (mainly on R&amp;D matters rather than on policy, to be sure),  I am confident in saying that we should not rely on industry to even recognize what&#039;s going on politically, let alone to lead us out of the wilderness.  We the people are going to have to monitor this, and do something about it if necessary.

Rich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jupe,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know enough to say how much the drug companies themselves might have manipulated British policy.  But as one who now earns his bread consulting with biotech companies (mainly on R&amp;D matters rather than on policy, to be sure),  I am confident in saying that we should not rely on industry to even recognize what&#8217;s going on politically, let alone to lead us out of the wilderness.  We the people are going to have to monitor this, and do something about it if necessary.</p>
<p>Rich</p>
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		<title>By: Jupe</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7676</link>
		<dc:creator>Jupe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 23:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7676</guid>
		<description>&quot;If we Americans can agree on this one point, I am confident we can work out the rest in a civil manner.&quot;

I think so, too.
On the bright side, if &quot;the plan&quot; is actually to Trojan Horse in a &quot;literally single-payer&quot; system (which, it might not be. It might not ever have been anyone&#039;s plan. When it comes to liars, one can never be too sure who, exactly, is being duped...), the drug companies will probably help us out with illuminating the problems with that. 

I think it might have been the work of the drug companies that got those tyrannical laws repealed in the UK?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If we Americans can agree on this one point, I am confident we can work out the rest in a civil manner.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think so, too.<br />
On the bright side, if &#8220;the plan&#8221; is actually to Trojan Horse in a &#8220;literally single-payer&#8221; system (which, it might not be. It might not ever have been anyone&#8217;s plan. When it comes to liars, one can never be too sure who, exactly, is being duped&#8230;), the drug companies will probably help us out with illuminating the problems with that. </p>
<p>I think it might have been the work of the drug companies that got those tyrannical laws repealed in the UK?</p>
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		<title>By: DrRich</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7638</link>
		<dc:creator>DrRich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7638</guid>
		<description>Jupe,

I am being very serious when I say that I am very glad that you and other progressives who are regular folks feel this way. Because (as I have elaborated upon at length) your elites do not.  So please watch out for it, and when you see it (as you will), I hope you will join us non-progressives in fighting this particular aspect of the healthcare system. 

If we Americans can agree on this one point, I am confident we can work out the rest in a civil manner.

Rich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jupe,</p>
<p>I am being very serious when I say that I am very glad that you and other progressives who are regular folks feel this way. Because (as I have elaborated upon at length) your elites do not.  So please watch out for it, and when you see it (as you will), I hope you will join us non-progressives in fighting this particular aspect of the healthcare system. </p>
<p>If we Americans can agree on this one point, I am confident we can work out the rest in a civil manner.</p>
<p>Rich</p>
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		<title>By: Jupe</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7603</link>
		<dc:creator>Jupe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7603</guid>
		<description>I think when most American progressives say &quot;single payer&quot; they just mean some sort of NHS-like &quot;free at point of service&quot; tax funded system open to all. I don&#039;t think any (well, many) US progressives would want to see paying for your own health care with your own money banned, even if that is technically a double or triple payer system.

Of course, just because we Joe Schmoe progressives feel that way doesn&#039;t mean the &quot;progressive elite&quot; strategists and decision makers would think the same way. And it&#039;s not like those &quot;think tank&quot; types would be forthcoming (with anyone besides their political elite friends) with their plans and strategies, either. For that reason, it&#039;s definitely something to watch out for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think when most American progressives say &#8220;single payer&#8221; they just mean some sort of NHS-like &#8220;free at point of service&#8221; tax funded system open to all. I don&#8217;t think any (well, many) US progressives would want to see paying for your own health care with your own money banned, even if that is technically a double or triple payer system.</p>
<p>Of course, just because we Joe Schmoe progressives feel that way doesn&#8217;t mean the &#8220;progressive elite&#8221; strategists and decision makers would think the same way. And it&#8217;s not like those &#8220;think tank&#8221; types would be forthcoming (with anyone besides their political elite friends) with their plans and strategies, either. For that reason, it&#8217;s definitely something to watch out for.</p>
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		<title>By: DrRich</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7502</link>
		<dc:creator>DrRich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7502</guid>
		<description>Chad,

Fundamentally I agree with you. And most of the Progressives, including, I think, Mr. Obama, would dearly love to see a single-payer system.  But keeping the insurance companies around in a diminished capacity nonetheless has certain advantages for them, which I will discuss in a later post in this series.  Basically, it would be an advantage to the Progressives to keep the evil (but castrated) insurance companies around so there&#039;s someone to blame when the whole mess gets really ugly.  For instance, don&#039;t you think the Feds were happy to have private mortgage companies around to distract attention from Fannie and Freddie over the last 2 years?

Also, I will take this opportunity to remind readers about another bugaboo of mine. Which is, under any single-payer system, the ability of individuals to spend their own money on their own healthcare &lt;em&gt;must&lt;/em&gt; be forcibly restricted. Otherwise, that would be two payers.

Rich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad,</p>
<p>Fundamentally I agree with you. And most of the Progressives, including, I think, Mr. Obama, would dearly love to see a single-payer system.  But keeping the insurance companies around in a diminished capacity nonetheless has certain advantages for them, which I will discuss in a later post in this series.  Basically, it would be an advantage to the Progressives to keep the evil (but castrated) insurance companies around so there&#8217;s someone to blame when the whole mess gets really ugly.  For instance, don&#8217;t you think the Feds were happy to have private mortgage companies around to distract attention from Fannie and Freddie over the last 2 years?</p>
<p>Also, I will take this opportunity to remind readers about another bugaboo of mine. Which is, under any single-payer system, the ability of individuals to spend their own money on their own healthcare <em>must</em> be forcibly restricted. Otherwise, that would be two payers.</p>
<p>Rich</p>
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		<title>By: DrRich</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7500</link>
		<dc:creator>DrRich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7500</guid>
		<description>PeterW,

Because the average monthly payments made by subscribers (premiums) is rapidly overtaking the average expenditures made by the insurance companies - despite all the legitimate and illegitimate cost-savings measures that have been instituted.  With expensive new technologies and the aging of the population, all the cost-saving schemes they could muster have not slowed healthcare inflation, which approaches 10% per year. Healthcare expenditures in 2004 averaged $6280 per American, and it is much higher than that today.  Insurance companies simply can&#039;t increase their premiums fast enough to break even for much longer, let alone make a profit, and they know it.

Rich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PeterW,</p>
<p>Because the average monthly payments made by subscribers (premiums) is rapidly overtaking the average expenditures made by the insurance companies &#8211; despite all the legitimate and illegitimate cost-savings measures that have been instituted.  With expensive new technologies and the aging of the population, all the cost-saving schemes they could muster have not slowed healthcare inflation, which approaches 10% per year. Healthcare expenditures in 2004 averaged $6280 per American, and it is much higher than that today.  Insurance companies simply can&#8217;t increase their premiums fast enough to break even for much longer, let alone make a profit, and they know it.</p>
<p>Rich</p>
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		<title>By: PeterW</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7491</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7491</guid>
		<description>Sure, I agree with everything you write above.  But at an organizational level, HMOs did *not* operate on a tooth-fairy model: costs were accounted for internally and the patient  picks up the tab, smoothed out over monthly payments.  Of course this limitation led to moaning but it should have restricted costs.  Why did it not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, I agree with everything you write above.  But at an organizational level, HMOs did *not* operate on a tooth-fairy model: costs were accounted for internally and the patient  picks up the tab, smoothed out over monthly payments.  Of course this limitation led to moaning but it should have restricted costs.  Why did it not?</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7490</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7490</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a cynic and believe that Obamacare is a calculated iterative step towards single payer.  When premiums and healthcare costs continue to skyrocket, the Dems will say, &quot;See, we told you that market based solutions to healthcare don&#039;t work because the evil insurance industry is only interested in profits-single payer is the only solution.&quot;  Why move to a utility model-it implies a regulated ROI ie profits which are anathema to the left&#039;s &quot;Healthcare is a right&quot; paradigm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a cynic and believe that Obamacare is a calculated iterative step towards single payer.  When premiums and healthcare costs continue to skyrocket, the Dems will say, &#8220;See, we told you that market based solutions to healthcare don&#8217;t work because the evil insurance industry is only interested in profits-single payer is the only solution.&#8221;  Why move to a utility model-it implies a regulated ROI ie profits which are anathema to the left&#8217;s &#8220;Healthcare is a right&#8221; paradigm.</p>
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		<title>By: DrRich</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7486</link>
		<dc:creator>DrRich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7486</guid>
		<description>PeterW,

I actually wrote a whole book about this, explaining it in detail. But the short answer is: The health insurance system as currently constituted is not anything like a free-market system. It&#039;s the Tooth Fairy model (where doctors and patients decide how much money to spend, and the Tooth Fairy picks up the tab). 

If we&#039;re going to pay for all healthcare from a centralized pool of money, then it doesn&#039;t really matter whether that pool of money is controlled by health insurance companies or the government. We&#039;re not going to be able to put enough money in the pool to pay for every bit of healthcare that has some chance of benefiting every person in the land. Our current healthcare reform simply proposes to accelerate the process of transferring control of the money from the companies to the Feds. 

Either way, there will be covert rationing. And either way, the rationing will be extraordinarily destructive to doctors, patients and society. Unlike the insurance companies, however, whose only tools of coercion are to withhold healthcare or withhold payment, the Feds can coerce &quot;correct&quot; behaviors by the legal, measured application of violence wherever necessary. So, personally, as nasty as the insurance companies are, I&#039;d rather have covert rationing by them than by the Feds.

But that&#039;s just me. Many Americans have undying trust in the fairness and benignity of a powerful government that has lots of control over our personal lives.

Rich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PeterW,</p>
<p>I actually wrote a whole book about this, explaining it in detail. But the short answer is: The health insurance system as currently constituted is not anything like a free-market system. It&#8217;s the Tooth Fairy model (where doctors and patients decide how much money to spend, and the Tooth Fairy picks up the tab). </p>
<p>If we&#8217;re going to pay for all healthcare from a centralized pool of money, then it doesn&#8217;t really matter whether that pool of money is controlled by health insurance companies or the government. We&#8217;re not going to be able to put enough money in the pool to pay for every bit of healthcare that has some chance of benefiting every person in the land. Our current healthcare reform simply proposes to accelerate the process of transferring control of the money from the companies to the Feds. </p>
<p>Either way, there will be covert rationing. And either way, the rationing will be extraordinarily destructive to doctors, patients and society. Unlike the insurance companies, however, whose only tools of coercion are to withhold healthcare or withhold payment, the Feds can coerce &#8220;correct&#8221; behaviors by the legal, measured application of violence wherever necessary. So, personally, as nasty as the insurance companies are, I&#8217;d rather have covert rationing by them than by the Feds.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s just me. Many Americans have undying trust in the fairness and benignity of a powerful government that has lots of control over our personal lives.</p>
<p>Rich</p>
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		<title>By: PeterW</title>
		<link>http://covertrationingblog.com/weird-fact-about-insurance-companies/why-the-health-insurance-industry-supported-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-7475</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://covertrationingblog.com/?p=709#comment-7475</guid>
		<description>Good read.  One thing I wonder, though, is why the HMO system failed to control costs.  After all, it contained many features that free-market reformers want to see happen in healthcare.  A single entity prescribes treatment and absorbs cost.  Patients indirectly see the costs of their treatment (via their monthly payments).  Yes they were perhaps too large to make cost-conscious treatment decisions that were as conscientious as you and I would prefer, and yes to an extent they grew to become local monopolies.  But both these factors should make them *more* profitable, not less.

So what went wrong here?  And what are the implications for the free-market reforms that share some of their features with HMOs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good read.  One thing I wonder, though, is why the HMO system failed to control costs.  After all, it contained many features that free-market reformers want to see happen in healthcare.  A single entity prescribes treatment and absorbs cost.  Patients indirectly see the costs of their treatment (via their monthly payments).  Yes they were perhaps too large to make cost-conscious treatment decisions that were as conscientious as you and I would prefer, and yes to an extent they grew to become local monopolies.  But both these factors should make them *more* profitable, not less.</p>
<p>So what went wrong here?  And what are the implications for the free-market reforms that share some of their features with HMOs?</p>
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